One of the interesting things that has come out of having a blog where I write about my experiences as a convert (AKA revert) to Islam in Malaysia is that over the last two years several people have contacted me to either share their experiences, ask for advice, or both. I really can’t offer much in the way of expert advice, because I’m really no expert on anything they ask me about. Still, I think being able to talk to someone who’s been there can and often does help.
Not long ago a young Malaysian woman contacted Leen after reading our blogs. She was frustrated by the fact that an Australian man she had strong feelings for–a man who seemed open to Islam in many ways–was not ready to commit for various reasons. Finally, however, he decided he was ready to convert to Islam. So he went to PERKIM, a Muslim welfare organization in Malaysia, where newcomers to the faith often go to seek guidance. He told the people there that he wanted to convert. And according to his girlfriend, what they did next was:
They turned him away.
He went in there alone, perhaps expecting a warm welcome. Instead, he was informed that he’d be better off going back to Australia and converting there. When he said he wanted to convert that day, they told him to go and bring some witnesses. He said he had none, and asked if any of the people there could be his witnesses. They said no and repeated their request that he go and find his own witnesses. They then quizzed him on various aspects of Islam, such as the five pillars, presumably to test whether he was sincere or just converting for marriage. He gave what probably should have been accepted as the right answers, knowledge he’d picked up from his studies in Australia and elsewhere. Unfortunately it wasn’t good enough, and he left PERKIM that day very disappointed.
I’m disappointed too. It’s bad enough there’s so much red tape to cut through when it comes to immigration in Malaysia, but religion?
My own early interactions with Muslims and my subsequent conversion to Islam were so different. I entered Islam in Canada, which is of course quite different from Malaysia, and because of the differences I can almost understand why the folks at PERKIM might be so picky. You know, making sure someone isn’t converting just to marry, or to reap whatever other benefits there might be to being a Muslim in Malaysia. But note the almost I dropped in two sentences before this one. I received my share of disrespect from Muslims in Canada, but one thing’s for sure: when it came time for me to convert, I didn’t have to know anything at all except laa ilaha ilAllah wa Muhammadar rasulullah. The rest comes afterwards. They didn’t even expect me to quit drinking right away (even though I told them I’d done that ten days earlier) or fast during my first Ramadhan (I made it through the whole month, but there was no pressure from anyone to do so).
The bottom line, in my own humble opinion, is that nobody at PERKIM has any right to question the intentions of someone who approaches them and says they want to convert. Leave the questioning to God. If someone wants to become a Muslim, at least welcome them and then offer them guidance. But don’t turn them away. You know, I think globetrotting Christian missionaries are among the most ignorant people on Earth, but at least they’re willing to do some work to ’save’ their fellow humans. A lot of Muslims are ignorant for the same reasons as Christian missionaries (whose work is, for the most part, done out of a strong belief that anyone who doesn’t follow their religion will rot in Hell), but it seems to me many Muslims are even more disrespectful because they have the same ignorant beliefs but don’t want to do any work to save anyone.
Of course, I should add that I wasn’t present the day that guy got turned away, so I’m going on what I heard from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone. I’m assuming PERKIM has in fact helped a lot of people, and I won’t try to diminish the good things they might have done and might still be doing. I really can’t say much about PERKIM. I’ve only had one experience with them. It was shortly after my move to Malaysia. I was looking for information that might be useful to a convert like myself, and had finally found a phone number after months of searching. I called PERKIM around lunchtime on a Friday afternoon, the only free time I had. The man who answered scolded me for calling so close to the Friday prayer time and hung up. It was about that time when I decided maybe I didn’t really want help from PERKIM. Many Muslims in Malaysia welcomed me with open arms, but PERKIM certainly didn’t.
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28 Comments
I honestly haven’t heard anything nice about PERKIM myself (mostly tales of Malay-centric racism and outright stupidity).
I’ve mostly dealt with ABIM, who have a better reputation and are pretty good at what they do, which is support people through the conversion of Islam.
I also had a less than positive experience with PERKIM. Thankfully I was quickly introduced to ABIM Outreach which provided me with good answers to all my questions and helped me learn Islam at my open speed.
After many months and converting at ABIM Outreach, I went to JAWI’s dumpy little office. JAWI didn’t quiz me at all after they learned ABIM Outreach had sent me. Instead they just gave me a kain pelikat and sejada as well as my little green conversion card. I kind of lauged at them giving me the kain pelikat which in my mind had nothing to do with Islam but was rather part of Malay culture. I have since come to love kain pelikat since it is so convienient and comfortable. Not because I was converted into a Malay! So many in Malaysia think to be a Muslim is to become Malay. How confused they are.
I had a few other rough points on my path to becoming an Muslim. One other that stands out in my memory is that while I was sitting on the bench outside the Bangsar Mosque waiting for my friend (wife now) to pray, one Muslim took it upon himself to verbally assault me for mistaking the Mosque for a park. Not exactly very welcoming. Thankfully ABIM Outreach was there before these idiots scared me away from Islam.
My dad told me years ago that he took a non-Muslim Chinese Malaysian friend to a local mosque to show him around. One of the muslims at the mosque said that he must not let his friend in because -wait for it - “He eats pork and have pork in his system.” My father replied that if his friend were to convert the next day, what then?
Be careful about Islam in Malaysia. The ‘local mullahs’ brigade seem to write the rules as they like.
There was that incident with the bible in the Iban language. Marriage between a muslim man and a lady from ‘the people of the book’ is still a no-no in Malaysia even though the Koran sanctioned it. There is an obsession with pigskin products (it is haram to use them) eventhough many non-Shafie muslims have no trouble with them. Then,there is this hysteria about anything to do with alcohol even in minute, non-intoxicating amount. I could go on, of course.
If a person believes all that a Muslim should believe, then he or she is already a Muslim.
Witnessess and government bodies are only needed so that if that person died, then he or she will be buried as one.
I am working on a book on this subject. InshaAllah, it will have English and Malay on facing pages, so no need for translations.
Interestingly enough, in Judaism, the conversion process is much more complicated than in Islam. Those interested in converting have to wait a certain amount of time during which they study the faith, etc, before becoming a Jew. I think the differential treatment speaks to the extent to which each religious community deems converts a valuable addition to the community.
I agree with the red tape for immigrantion to Malaysia (really got sick of the ever-growing population of indons and burmese, vietnamese, etc -polluting the secene of the city, lrts too crowded with them, crimes.. bla bla bla) BUT certainly not agree with what perkim did to that fella… U should be the president of perkim, Jordan… :)
Nizar,
I disagree with the notion that immigrants means crime rates go up. That is the same argument far right parties in the West use against immigrants, especially non-blonds, and headscarf wearing women, and beard bearing men. Immigration helps a country’s economy and anything that contributes to the economy brings positive contribution to society.
Saffiyah, yes, such conversion into Judaism exists. However, one must know why it exists. In most schools of thought in Judaism, one cannot convert into the religion. One has to be born a Jew. But in Islam, the fact that Muslims believe that Islam as revealed in the Qur’an is the final message for humanity, no one can be denied as a brethren in faith, on top of being a brethren in humanity.
Interestingly enough, I’m actually writing a journal article on the effects of (illegal) immigration on the crime rate, among other things. I’m not advocating the idea that illegal immigrants are criminals though.
The issue with conversion with the Bible is that some Muslim sects believe that the Bible is “corrupted” and has been changed by the hands of men. That’s something I believe too, but it’s not restricted to the Bible.
M’sia is probably not unique in that they associate their race with their religion. Malays must be Muslim and so Malaysian Muslims must be Malays. For some reason being Malay and being Muslim is associated with being “pure” and being “better” than everyone else. Of course, this was the same thinking that started the genocides in the first place.
The point is that Malays (and therefore Muslims) are very proud, and they thrive on being thought of as “good”. That said, if somebody says that make-up must be halal certified, nobody can say otherwise because they will be thought of as being un-Muslim. It’s a complicated and perception-based way of thinking. I think we’re due for an Enlightenment sometime soon.
You know, making sure someone isn’t converting just to marry, or to reap whatever other benefits there might be to being a Muslim in Malaysia.
This made me laugh and sigh at the same time. It’s sad because there is a very real perception that converting for the sake of marriage is wrong or bad. In fact, there were countless questionable conversions during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) but he never stopped one. Do we think the Prophet (pbuh) didn’t know who the munafiqun were when the Quran spoke about them? It is better to be a munafiq muslim than to remain a kafir, in the grand reckoning of things, and we certainly aren’t the ones to decide who is entering islam out of sincerity and who isn’t.
You know, making sure someone isn’t converting just to marry, or to reap whatever other benefits there might be to being a Muslim in Malaysia.
It’s funny because there are like zero other benefits to conversion. Even if Perkim seems to think being a muslim equals being a malay, we converts still remain non-bumis in everything that matters.
PS - congratulations on the baby-to-be!
T-Boy: I’ve heard good things about ABIM too!
DQ: And I believe you’re the one who told me good things about ABIM!
You know, I believe at one time anyone who converted to Islam in Malaysia was said to masuk Melayu. I guess things have changed, except for superficial things like the kain pelikat. That’s OK, I love my kain pelikat.
Ida: The ignorance of some people never ceases to amaze me.
Ben: Hey, look at that…we agree on something! Haha…
Anisah: Can I have an autographed copy? Maybe two: one to keep, the other to sell when you’re famous.
Saf: I don’t know much about the process of conversion to Judaism, but I’m sure the strong association of the Jewish religion with membership in a certain ethnic group would certainly make for some interesting parallels between such conversions and cases of conversion to Islam in Malaysia.
Are converts to Judaism considered Jews in every sense of the word? If not, were they before? What I mentioned earlier about Islam in Malaysia–how masuk Islam was once synonymous with masuk Melayu (masuk being the Malay word for enter)–would be relevant to such a discussion, I think.
Nizar: Well, thanks to your beloved red tape, which has made it ridiculously difficult for people such as myself (foreigners married to Malaysians, and I don’t just mean white guys married to Malay women) to get PR in Malaysia, you won’t have to put up with the sight of us clogging up the LRTs.
As for my becoming president of PERKIM: free kain pelikat for everyone!
Anisah: You again? I can always count on you for a good discussion. Anyway, what you’ve said about Judaism partly answers my question above. Interesting stuff.
Student: Thanks for sharing! I’d like to see that journal article when it’s published.
Bin Gregory: That’s right, there really aren’t a whole lot of benefits to conversion in terms of material gain, beyond what a convert married to a Malay might benefit from thanks to his/her spouse’s bumi status. The folks at PERKIM likely have that in mind, although we know better.
It is better to be a munafiq muslim than to remain a kafir, in the grand reckoning of things, and we certainly aren’t the ones to decide who is entering islam out of sincerity and who isn’t.
We could have quite a lively debate on the first point (we’ll see whether Osama Bin Laden or Mother Theresa, for example, is judged more harshly in the grand reckoning of things), but you’ll get nothing but hearty agreement on the second.
PS - Thanks, brother!
ah yes, I should say, “all else being equal”. Mother Theresa would be better off as a muslim and OBL would be worse off as a catholic would be closer to what I had in mind.
Ibnu Ubayy was the “unofficial” leader of the munafiqun in Madinah. He had done various things to undermine the Prophet’s leadership. But when he died, the Prophet himself lead his funeral prayers.
The moral is, don’t judge other Muslims’ faith. Even though it it might seem unsincere.
Don’t you converts get it?!!
The kain pelikat is for you guys to wear after you get circumcised!
It not a Malay thing. It’s for comfort and speedy healing.
Hah,is that it?! That’s a nice touch - of course most americans are circumcised at birth regardless of religion, but it’s a kind gesture for the rest of us who have to go through it as adults.
Wrt not a malay thing, that is also true as the Prophet (pbuh) wore a cloth wrapped around his waist. While not an obligatory element, the sarong is more meritorious for prayer than the office slacks we’re all probably wearing at the moment.
Hah! Ben, you almost made me spit water out of my nose. Yes, it is certainly a kind gesture when you look at it that way. Anyway, what Bin Gregory said about Americans applies to Canadians as well. I was snipped at only a few days old. Good thing too, because all those images of Malay boys lying in bed holding up their kain pelikat just give me the shivers!
‘Snipped’, huh? hihi
Why don’t u guys write about this in Utusan, the star, etc… it will surely be an eye-opener to many typical Malays who think it’s bad become muslims for the sake of getting married. In Turkey, they say ‘becoming Turkish’ when someone converts.
Why do Malaysian/ Malay muslims have this hang up about the fore-skin?
Surely this is a whole thing is a remnant of the Arabian /Judaic culture and so not such a big thing c.f. the shahada etc. etc.
I am aware of the advantages of circumcision in terms of hygiene. The incidence of tranmission of HIV is lower in circumcised men in one particular sub-Saharan area probably due to the highly keratinised glans penis of the circumcised men.
In this age of hygiene and access to clean water, surely the argument that that not having a fore-skin is cleaner no longer holds water.
It seems harsh for men who came into Islam to be subjected to this ‘treatment’ when they have had a ‘loving’ relationship with their fore-skins for years.
(Apologies to those with prudish dispositions. My stint in Urology proved an eye-opener on the subject of men and their fore-skins.)
Ida
Surely this is a whole thing is a remnant of the Arabian /Judaic culture and so not such a big thing c.f. the shahada etc. etc.
Not a remnant of arabian/judaic culture but rather a covenant between God Almighty and Abraham, who is our holy prophet as well. You don’t suppose “kama salayta ala Ibrahim wa ala alih Ibrahim” in the tahiyat five times a day is a remnant of arabian/judaic culture, do you?
Of course, circumcision is not a prerequisite to the shahada, which is why Perkim hands out the sarongs after conversion, at least according to Ben Maarof’s theory…
Anisah: Welcome to Selayang and Brickfields and JB and…. I keep some cutouts from newspapers too. Wanna see my scrap book of ‘Crimes by Immigrants in Malaysia’? Some africans doing magic money business, a Pakistani guy murdered a Malay girl because she did not love him. A Myanmar immigrant killed by fellow countryman to win over a woman they loved. I’m sure you must have gone thru these headlines, if u never saw the crimes yourself. I know maybe you think that our newspapers are not fair to them but the things newspapers did not uncover are actually worse!
Ida,
More than a quarter of the world’s population does not have access to clean water. And even a lot of those who do, don’t use it to clean up after they pee. A little rattle and shake is sufficient for them.
Ooppsss… hehe that’s the prob when ‘access list’ is not ‘configured’ specifically. The red tape I meant is for ppl from certain countries which are known to bring too many problems when they are here. Why on earth do u think our government ban the Banglas? At the same time, they also welcome those who can contribute to the country in critical fields. I also have many Turkish friends who do businesses in KL and JB. For ppl like, probably a tape with another color… (how about pink?) :)
ppl like u.. i mean :)
Wow, Cik Ida… bertuahnya laki awak dapat isteri yang bijaksana :)
My dear friends,
I do not know how to put in words, let me try. Thrick with Malaysia is that Malay girls are really beautiful and sweet hearted. Hundreds of guys converted…..this is against HUMAN RIGHTS.
Please understand what it is all about: Malays do not want to let their girls in the end of dirty white fellows. When you have got a date with a Malay girl, they say: are you Muslim? islam is nice, we should beglad to have one more muslim. The true message is: don’t play full, you must convert, they hope to frighten you and give up. When the guy is in love, he is blind (that is where it is evil) and go for it, poor fellow…….he gets is penis mutilated, get few hairs on his face, goes to mosques and after feww years of humiliation is realize that Malays piss on his good heart and sacrifice, what a nasty thing they are doing…And they say they are religious: my ass. He will hear Malays say don’t do that and that but they are the first to drink, to run for sex, corruption and black magic. They have lost their credibility, it is all a big joke..
What’s next, the guy turns mad, or secretly reverts to Christianity and become a good christian in his heart. If the wife is cool she let him do.
My good feelings are going for the hundred of so-called converted white guys who even cannot go to church. International institutions should not allow the conversion in Islam for marriage of expatriates in Malaysia, it is not acceptable, it is cruel, humiliating, again Human rights.
When you see a white fellow in kuala lumpur with a Malay wife and kids, be good to him because he suffers, he is alone. We must fight for religious freedom.
Baba
I have been reading this thread with intrest. I have never met anyone like Ida who shares opinions about:
“There is an obsession with pigskin products (it is haram to use them) eventhough many non-Shafie muslims have no trouble with them. Then,there is this hysteria about anything to do with alcohol even in minute, non-intoxicating amount.
In this age of hygiene and access to clean water, surely the argument that that not having a fore-skin is cleaner no longer holds water.”
I used to be by the book (holy Koran) person. but then I started thinking..
Incidentally, christian missionaries arent the only ignorant group of religious zealouts around.
wow, what at thread!
Boy am I glad I reverted because my conscious told me to get my life straightened out.
Boy am I glad I converted in New York instead of KL.
Boy am I glad I’ve dealt more with ABIM than PERKIM.
…and I’m probably glad about more but havnt got enough time to read all the comments just now. I’m on my way to an appointment to enroll my son in one of KL’s so called International Islamic Schools. ugh! (It’s just temporary, inshallah. We’ll be leaving Malaysia soon and its better than him being on the streets commiting crimes)
Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot to like about Malaysia. For example, my hijab doesnt get the looks here that it got in New York.
But at the same time, as Indonesia did before it, Malaysia disappoints me. (I feel a painful blog post coming on)
Really enjoy your webblog, Brother
ma salaam
Thought you might find this interesting and that you’ll realize, you’re not the only one!
http://kriskhaira.com/blog/131/letter-from-a-muslim-to-the-islamic-affairs-department